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The problem I too often see, whether using a literal meaning, a spiritual meaning or some combination thereof, is that we seem to want a clear and fast rule on what is allowed and what is not allowed based on a verse on verses. Hypothetical answers may sometimes be right, but they will almost certainly be wrong at times in the real life situation.

The ten commandments did not work in the OT. The 613 laws did not work in the OT. That is they did not work to make people overcomers as Jesus became an overcomer.

Remember when they brought the woman caught in the very act of adultery in order to tempt Jesus? She was definitely in sin, but what was in the hearts of those who accused her? What was in her heart? What did God think of the whole situation?

The black and white laws of the OT seemed to prescribe death for the woman,  but God never did really deal in black and white decisions, did He? The Psalms of David in particular make this very clear as does the life of David as described in written scripture. David did not please God because he always kept the 10 commandments (which he did not) nor did he please God because he always kept the 613 laws (which he did not).

The woman brought to Jesus had sinned, but at the end of that particular event she is the only one who definitely left the scene uncondemned. What was the interpretation of that?

Compare that interpretation with Naboth the man, who was stoned to death because two liars falsely accused him (I Kings 21. Naboth as per scripture and the 613 laws was a righteous man. Jezebel used the law of God to have the man condemned to give Ahab his land. What was the interpretation of that?

Man's interpretation at the wrong time and the wrong place in the wrong spirit or for the wrong reason even though seeming to follow the "rules" does of itself fall short. Only the Holy Ghost speaking through a person can always the correct interpretation. The problem is that people who have received the Holy Ghost will too often not listen to, or pay attention to Holy Ghost. Too often they do not recognize their Master's voice and follow some other voice. Too often they have lost their first love.

There are lots of reasons why the interpretation is wrong, but ultimately what excuse can there be when the result is not pleasing to God?

Should the Bible be taken literally, or must all of it be spiritually interpreted? 

Is there good in the literal renderings and are they elevated by the Spirit?

Or is the literal simply the "dead letter" and evil?

What do you think?

ok; watch this answer
it cannot be spiritally interpited by those without the spirit
and yet; the bible contains the words that leads one to the story of Jesus and then life

MY CONCLUSION the bible  is not a book of spiritual interpitations
the two terms that should be used are literal and allegorical

allegorical is not un-truth ; myth or any other such inclanation towards being unreal

example ;
if one should say i only believe what i see
then play them a song and let them look for the sound

see what i mean?

Jesus is a door
does jesus have a knob? is Jesus attached to side walls? -------------literal
a literal mind (only) cannot see this
BUT; we all use that allegorical part of our mind to see
see the door ( Jesus) is the way to something else -------------------allegorical

note the door in both;  allegorical uses the liternal door and combines the uses of said literal door and creates a "word-picture" to express what makes Jesus a door

see what i mean?; if not make me say it again

the literal readings ( each verse) are but the ingredients
who would pull flour out of the container and serve it as cake?

watch again ; as we explore a parable
literal; -----------------------you are the light
literal; ---------------------- the word is the light
literal; ---------------------- the holy spirit comes to dwell in you
literal; ---------------------- the father son and holy ghost are one

the allegorical ; ------------ jesus is the light ; jesus is one with the holy spirit ; when the holy spirit comes to dwell --------------------------------within you ; that holy spirit is the light within you

this is quite different than a said spirtualized interpitation or what other have drawn out from just the literal reading

do you see the breakfast?
look at those literals again ; bread; eggs; potatoes; and a meat
it is the allegorical that cooked them into what we call a meal

see what i mean ?   if not make me say it again

on cf ff ; i did the parable of the sower
i showed that if you read the parable from any of the gosples
you have the literal but incompleted story
mark has a line that is not in the others
mark and luke have a line not in matthew

who went to the market

matthew ; bob and i went to the market at noon
luke ; jake and i went to the market at noon
mark ; i went to the market with luke at noon

so read each version and then tell me ; who went to the market?
the complete answer is ; matthew ; luke ; mark ; bob; and jake
but taking just one of the versions you don't get the complete story

see what i mean? if not make me say it again

Or is the literal simply the "dead letter" and evil?

no; it isn't evil or wrong ;
it is an ingredient

the casual ( believer or unbeliever) can see the flour or eggs or potatoes ( the ingredents )
the true follower ( believer ) will kept going till he sees the breakfast 

================================================
the literal (each verse) needs to be fixed into ( cooked/pondered) the whole story ( the meal).

Thanks for all that, Patrick.

I agree.  There is much allegory to be found in Scripture.  That's what makes the Bible great literature as well as a holy book.

And, yes, I do see what you mean about finding the ingredients and putting them together into a meal of sorts.  Kind of like working a puzzle, finding all the pieces.  As in the Gospel stories, each adds to the other.

There is symbolism, too, as well as types and shadows.  I've studied symbolism some, but not so much the types and shadows.  Need to focus on that sometime.

* * * *

I won't make you say it again.   

that invatation to have to repeat it again ; is open to everyone
gw; you already had this concept ; when you made your topic post on "puzzle pieces" awhile back 

This topic brings to mind,

Jhn 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 
Jhn 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. 

1Cr 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 
1Cr 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
1Cr 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 
1Cr 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 
1Cr 2:16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. 

Every blessing.

Edwin.

* john;
if Jesus said i am God what would have been the result ?
Jesus came into this world to do ( fulfill) things;
these things he does ; he does as the son of man.
--birth; FULFILLING THE STORY OF THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK--from-------------------------- {genesis post-flood}
--life; FULFILLING THE LAWfrom-----------------------------------------------------------{journey to the promised land}
--death;FULFILLING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE KINSMAN REDEEMER--------------------------------{time of judges}
-- return ( in the time to come when he reveils himself as both sn of man and son of God )from---------------{kings} 

all of these things that are needed for salvation can only be done by Jesus {who is the son of god}as the son of man.

1cr;
here paul is talking of "pearls"
land ( those from adam) ------------sand ( those from abraham) but niether of these are taken by the traveler to the fathers house
THE TRAVELER takes only PEARLS to the fathers house

those of the land
mankind from adam
have many opinions of many things
but they don't have the story of the traveler
the story of Jesus 

                                                   those of sand
                                                   those of abraham
                                                   those two kingdoms
                                                   with their birth-rite promises
                                                   divided by jacob into
                                                   the northern and southern
                                                   by jacobs divisions of the promises
                                                   these two have the story & history of
                                                   ( genesis post-flood)
                                                   ( journey to the promised land)
                                                   ( time of judges)
                                                   ( david; the king)
                                                   which leads to jesus
                                                   and what he does as
                                                   son of god and man

                                                                                                             but those of pearls
                                                                                                             are those of land
                                                                                                             who have heard the story of sand
                                                                                                             aliens who live among this are counted as native born
                                                                                                             and continued to journey
                                                                                                             into the water / oyster
                                                                                                             old man dies new creation is born
                                                                                                             and have been changed into pearls   


let us remember that when we look at the words of paul; they are an after-thought or commontary and what has already taken place for the thief on the cross has been been saved and our way of salvation is eactly the same as that of the thief on the cross

  1Cr 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 

the spirit of the world is really no spirit at all; it is no more than the blindness that original sin brought to mankind
WHERE-AS the spirit from God is none-other than the HOLY SPIRIT which only has been given to dwell within "PEARLS" for this is a family thing ( though in the past it has acted upon selected men but not within them)

1Cr 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
these spiritual truths then are taught by the Holy Spirit to those ("PEARLS") who have become that new creation and cannot be seen by those of land { for they need the story of the sand }  or even sand (for they still need to go into the water/oyster)for they still live in darkness
1Cr 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
what is called the natural man has only the physical life of the mind & body and cannot precieve "family things" of the Holy Spirit   
1Cr 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
THE SPIRITUAL PERSON has already been judged for they gave-up their life and turned it over to their kinsman redeemer ; they now live life as that new creation. Even thou they still live the life in the physical flesh ; the phisical flesh has become just a vehicle for moving around and is not part of the new creation itself. 
1Cr 2:16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
the old man knew nothing of the HOLY SPIRIT ; the new creation is family and as children we don't instuct the father.
but we have the mind of Christ ..... I think is better stated we are in the family of God ; and not that 'we know" everything                                          

alphaomega.

You say,

"if Jesus said i am God what would have been the result ?"

Have a look at,

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 

Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. 

And let me have your comments.

Edwin.

 
alphaomega.
 
Thank you for  your  Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 07:01:25 am »
 
In order to respond, I would like to start a new topic in "General Discussions" entitled.
 
Was Jesus always God ?
 

God can only reveal / interpret Himself. He has been doing it from the beginning of the beginning, using figures of speech and plain text. But time is coming, and has already come for us to taste and see that the God of love is good, kind and light.